A start for Gill Tree

Click here to enlarge.
This is an extremely rough version, at least a small beginning of a Gill tree. I want to thank Cheryl, a friend of mine for digging in unexpectedly and doing this.
Yeah there are missing last names and somebody named Caroline that was probably who our aunt Carol was named after?
Hartman-Gill Family Tree
Above is the workable link that I am going to transfer soon. You may need a {free) account to view. The starting point is me because she knows me. Again, this is a very rough draft and I’m putting it here in the blog with a lot of searchable tag words to hopefully attract some curious Gill tree seekers. (like the one who disappeared.) We need help on this and ……. time.
Also: I have added her emails to me in the comments.


  1. George C. Hartman said,

    July 28, 2016 @ 11:40 am

    I’m having real trouble with your Grandfather Thomas and his wife Eliza. I can’t find them in the 1870 census anywhere. I may have found some death records for their children of TB prior to 1870 and it is possible that wife Eliza died about then also as there is a Thomas Gill family in Brooklyn at that time with similar children but a different wife so its possible Eliza died and Thomas remarried. It’s so hard to tell with NY online records though because they don’t provide parents names in marriage or death records like they do in New England. Have fun with this anyway.

    Any questions on this though please let me know.


  2. George C. Hartman said,

    July 28, 2016 @ 11:41 am

    Hi George —

    Boy this has been tough – you were right. Bear with me here though.

    I really, really thought I had it but then something peculiar happened. I had noticed that in many US Census some had your grandfather Frederick born in NJ but some had him born in NY. Sometimes it’s a transcription error but when I look at the actual documents there’s no transcription error. I had focused a lot on your “story” about his name originally begin McGill and then changing it to Gill, so I became fixated on the family of Harry McGill, his wife Anna/Annie, 2nd wife Marie, and their kids all born in NJ and they had a son named Frederick b abt 1906, a daughter Anna/Annie and another son, Harry. That family was all from Essex County – Orange actually where Harry was an electrical guy with what eventually became PSE&G.

    Your grandfather and his 1st wife Marie are in the 1930 Census living in Westfield w/no children – if they really did have two sons named Arthur and Frank they would have been born before 1930 – so where were they in the 1930 Census? I remember you telling me though that he may have been married prior to May. I found your blog and saw the entry by the guy that said your mom may have had stepbrothers – an Arthur and a Frank. Since your dad was born in 1906 it’s highly possible that he had 2 additional children although oddly enough I cannot find any record of an Arthur or Frank Gill/McGill born in NJ between in WW2 registration records anywhere, at least not yet — which is odd. The problem also is that with Fred born in 1906 his youngest kid couln’t have been born before 1922 (when Fred was 16) which just squeezes them into the right age group if they told the truth or lied. And then it is your grandfather in Westfield in the 1930 Census with NO CHILDREN and if he’d had them they would not have been old enough to be out of the house by then. See the problem.

    So he probably married May about 1935.

    But then you told me your grandfather had died in 1972. Well — this changed things just a bit because his middle name “James” was in the death record in Florida. So what happened is adding the middle name/initial to the search and changing the birth state to NY got me different results. I found a family in the 1915 NY Census living in an apartment at 89 Fifth Avenue in Kings Co, NY. They were Frederick James Gill Senior (b abt 1886) who was a NY City Fireman, his wife Elma (b abt 1886)and their 3 children. Guess what their children’s names were? Frederick James Junior, Arthur and Caroline. So this Frederick Gill had siblings named Arthur and Caroline.

    So here’s some theories:

    1) Your father didn’t change his last name, his father did. (Really, a lot of “stories” that get passed down get twisted in the retelling and in our childhood memories … so it is possible. Also at the time in NY there was a lot of anti-Irish sentiment so may Mc’s deleted the Mc). And, don’t you find it odd that this Fred Gill Senior in NY had children named Arthur & Caroline? Maybe they died young and your grandfather, while not the most upstanding citizen in the world, named his kids after his brother and sister. And don’t you have a cousin or something named James? Generally, I don’t believe in coincidences.

    It’s just a theory — but if we can confirm that this Fred Gill born in NY married and had 2 sons Arthur & Frank before he married May then it becomes more than a theory.

    2) Your grandfather Frederick is the son of Harry and Ann of Orange, NJ and the guy that posted in the blog got your grandfather mixed up with the Frederick James Gill family of NYC. Which is why he hasn’t posted anything further. We genealogists are a dogged lot – we generally don’t drop bombs on potential relative’s blogs and then disappear – we check in to see if any more information turned up.

    If you and your cousins/family think the McGills from Essex County are a better lead to chase let me know. Otherwise I’m going to see what I can find out about the Frederick James Gill born in NY to Frederick James Gill and Elma. It can’t hurt but … I’m having trouble with the dates. The 1930 Census with your grandfather and no children? If he’d had kids old enough to enlist in WW2 they would have had to be living at home in 1930. UNLESS, they were visiting Grandma & Grandpa Gill in NYC, which brings up another theory. Your grandfather became estranged from his parents when he dumped the first wife & their kids, to take up with your grandmother.

    I’m saving all the records so I can give them to you.

    So this is fun and I could use a fun diversion right now.

    I’ll let you know what I turn up.

    Have a good weekend.
    p.s. Rob Lanni says hi. We had lunch today.

  3. George C. Hartman said,

    July 28, 2016 @ 11:42 am

    I’m pretty sure you got it wrong!! That guy that posted on your blog! He wasn’t saying that your mother Joan, her sister Carol and her brother Fred had two more brothers. He specifically said “My father Arthur was Fred Gill’s and Carol Gill’s brother.”

    He was saying that his father was your grandfather Fred’s brother. I’m pretty sure now that the Frederick James Gill in NYC is your great grandfather. FJ & his wife Elma/Helma had 3 kids: Caroline Dorothy Gill (Carol), Frank G Gill and Arthur P Gill. So the WW2 vets were your grandfather’s brothers not your mother’s.

    So now the dates work.

    I’ll send more later.

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